India, Bangladesh must protect secularism: Abdullah

India and Bangladesh must work to see secular parties grow, Indian power minister Farooq Abdullah has said.

Secularism was needed for the protection of the people, their diverse cultures and religions, Abdullah said in Dhaka last Monday in an exclusive interview with bdnews24.com Editor-in-Chief Toufique Imrose Khalidi.

Abdullah was in Bangladesh on Oct 4-5 to launch the Bharat-Bangladesh Vidyut Sanchalan Kendra (BBVSK) at Bheramara when bdnews24 caught up with him.

About the rise of Hifazat-e Islam in Bangladesh, he attributed the trend to certain unfulfilled aspects of people’s aspirations.

When aspirations outpace fulfilment, forces emerge to make religious gains out of people’s disenchantment, he noted.

But Abdullah added that Bangladesh had come a long way from the time of its birth in 1971.

Although every goal may not have been attained, there was no denying that “a tremendous difference” was already visible, said the veteran Indian leader, who has himself battled zealots back home.

He appealed to the people of Bangladesh to protect the country’s secular tradition with all their might, saying the pace of progress would sharply hasten if harmony prevailed over strife.

When asked about India’s commitment to promoting ‘sustainable secular democracy’ at home and its neighbourhood, especially Bangladesh, Abdullah said people in both countries must strive to live together.

He stressed the baffling human, cultural and religious diversity in both countries and said hope lay in “living” and “progressing” together.

Talking about India, he said: “In your country, you speak the same language. In India, we speak multiple languages. We have multiple religions, we have multiple cuisines.

“We have everything different. North is different to the South, East is different to the West. But only one thing joins us, that is a hope that we can live together. That we can progress together, that our religions will grow together.”

Farooq Abdullah, former Chief Minister of the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir and son of the legendary Sheikh Abdullah, one of Indian Kashmir’s most revered leaders, said he saw no “difference in Gods”.

“My Allah, we say is Rabbul Alamin. He is the God of all the universe, of everything, whether you accept it or not. Hindus call Ram. They say Vishwakarma. This world is Ram. So I don’t see any difference.

“We pray towards Makkah, they go to the temple. The God is the same,” Abdullah said.

But does the BJP’s comeback bid with hard-line Hindu chauvinist Narendra Modi leading the charge worry Abdullah?

“Yes, we are afraid,” was his forthright reply.

If forces that play the religious card were to prevail in India, it would harm both India and Bangladesh, he said.

Likewise, the rise of such forces in Bangladesh would hurt both nations, he feared.

Below are the full excepts of the interview with Farooq Abdullah

Toufique Imrose Khalidi: As the grid connectivity finally gets going, Bangladesh is about to get 500 MW power by November – 250 MW from Indian government companies and 250 MW from private companies. Can we expect more in the near future?

Farooq Abdullah: One good thing is that these transmission lines can take more power. Therefore, we hope that another 500 MW will be also coming to Bangladesh in the near future.

Khalidi: How soon?

Abdullah: In the coming year … by November you should have this 500 MW. Then we hope, in further discussions that we’re going to have with them, by next year you will have another 500 MW.

Khalidi: By 2014 … (by next year)?

Abdullah: Yes, because your lines can carry it. And that is a good thing because we feel that power is essential.

Khalidi: What is the capacity like? Can it carry more than thousand MW?

Abdullah: This line of yours, it can carry a thousand megawatts very easily. And I think that is a very good thing. And if further talks between India, Bhutan and Nepal mature, then you’ll get much more for the future. A lot of projects are coming up in these states.

Khalidi: So are you talking about the possibility of an early implementation of, what we call is, the South Asian Power Grid.

Abdullah: I don’t know how soon that will emerge, but we also hope that it will emerge as rapidly as possible. We think it is very important. Energy is essential for your country, as it is essential for us. Because that is how it works. There will be more factories, there will be more people at work, and the country will prosper.

Khalidi: Do you think this grid connects producers like Bhutan, and users like Bangladesh and India?

Abdullah: Yes, it will work. I’m quite confident that negotiations will start very soon, and I think something will come out of this which will be positive for your country also.

Khalidi: This is not going to be just another political rhetoric by the politicians?

Abdullah: No, No, No. India doesn’t believe in doing that. I think India means what it says. It is important that we want to be friends. We have to deliver, that is important.

Khalidi: India’s commitment is crucial to it, because countries in SAARC border India, but not each other. Do you recognise that India has to do more than others?

Abdullah: Yes. India realises. India assures to be like a big brother. It should work, and India is determined to see that the SAARC countries come closer, and the co-operation is far greater in these countries, so that we emerge from darkness to light.

Khalidi: As India's power minister you would surely be keen to augment India's power capacity as it is an energy hungry economy. Is India trying to revive its proposal for a gas pipeline through Bangladesh from Myanmar now that as your PM says you have a friendly government in Dhaka?

Abdullah: India wants to do that. India wants to have that Myanmar gas pipeline. And India is very much keen on it, and I hope it gets through rapidly. Because it’ll not only benefit India, it’ll benefit you too, it’ll come through.

Khalidi: Have you started or reopened negotiations with Myanmar?

Abdullah: I don’t know since I am not in the ministry of gas and things, but I can find out. I can have the ambassador of my High Commission let you know. That is what the position is today.

Khalidi: So it has to be a tripartite negotiation involving …?

Abdullah: Yes. Obviously you are also there, and Myanmar is very next to you. So we feel that whatever we do, we’ll also have to have you on board to be able to rapidly get on with it.

Khalidi: What were the vibes like when you met the Prime Minister here?

Abdullah: I think there was a very good vibe. I think Myanmar is also now very closely working.

Khalidi: Have you met anyone from Myanmar?

Abdullah: I have recently told your adviser to the Prime Minister that we should work for bringing Myanmar into SAARC also, like Afghanistan came into SAARC. And China is also one of the partners in the SAARC. I think it’s a very good idea if we bring Myanmar also, and that this whole region benefit from each other.

Khalidi: Tripura's chief minister Manik Sarkar said, during our Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina's visit about two years ago to Agartala, that his government was willing to give away 100MW of its share of power from the 726-MW Palatana gas-fired plant, because Bangladesh gave transit corridor for transportation of crucial equipments from one Indian state to another. But he has said recently this has not been possible because Delhi has not moved on it? Why is that the case?

Abdullah: I have no Idea, but I will look into it as soon as I get back. I’ll talk to my power minister and the Prime Minister as well, that when this was agreed on, we should have moved on it. I don’t think we should have any difficulties in giving you 100 megawatt. We are giving you so much from here, why not 100 megawatts more (be given) from here?

Khalidi: Probably there is no formal agreement, but the Tripura Chief Minister promised that he would…

Abdullah: I think the agreement is in the paper. That can be easily done if the Chief Minister says he has the power which he can give. I think we should have no difficulty in that. I will look into it immediately as I get there, and convey it to your government also, that we should have no difficulties to give you this power from that side.

Khalidi: Turning to Rampal…Rampal has been causing some clamour in Bangladesh for quite some time now. Several major political parties, including main opposition BNP , former president Ershad and rights groups, of course, have been campaigning against it. One of their concerns is the plant will be just 14 km off the Sundarbans.

Abdullah: I think I can assure your all opposition parties, that as far as any project that India is going to make, no project India will take that will be detrimental to the environment, because the Sundarbans are also very close to us. We share Sundarbans, both the countries. And nothing will be done…these are the tragedies with us. Sometimes these things are taken to such a level to create a hype, that people start, you know, doubting each other. That is why I want to clear one thing, nothing will be done, India will not do anything which will anyway be detrimental to the environment of Bangladesh or its own nation. We are also building huge modern coal-plants-clean coal plants. If they were going to be detrimental, we would not have built them.

Khalidi: 60 percent of Indian power come from coal?

Abdullah: Yes. We would not have built them. And nowadays, our maximum import is coal.

Khalidi: Perhaps, one reason that coal power is being scaled down in developed countries is that they have proved to be dangerous, despite detailed impact studies, due diligence and contingency plans. Yet you are confident enough to endorse Rampal, why?

Abdullah: I am quite confident that India will not do anything that will harm your environment, or Sundarbans.

Khalidi: But anti-Rampal campaigners say, even in India, there are guidelines set by the environmental department …

Abdullah: We have environmental minister, Jayanthi Natarajan …

Khalidi: …As well as a directive from the high court, that’s what they are saying in Bangladesh that there cannot be any coal-fired plant set up within a certain area of any forest. They say the Indian limit is 20 km. Is that true?

Abdullah: No, I don’t think so.

Khalidi: What is the situation?

Abdullah: Let me be very clear about it. Earlier technologies that were there are different to one which is now coming to it. The new technology is far cleaner and far more efficient than the ones we had earlier. That is why the people are misunderstanding is from the earlier coal plants that had so much of pollution around that they were scared about it. Things have changed. I would like to suggest that those who are complaining so much, I would ask them, please, go to Rome, which is so populated, and they have a clean coal plant going there, which they should see. And they will realize, if Rome can do this, why not us.

Khalidi: The Bangladesh government says the low-sulfur coal to be used for the Rampal plant will be imported from Australia, South Africa or Indonesia.

Abdullah: Like we do. We are doing the same thing, No difference. Now we are also importing from Australia, Indonesia and South Africa.

Khalidi: That’s quite expensive… but opponents say eventually low-quality Indian coal will make its way to the plant.

Abdullah: Not at all, not at all.

Khalidi: Do you guarantee? Can you assure these protesters?

Abdullah: You see the tragedy is that some political parties live on creating misunderstandings, and creating divisions. To them, I would say as an Indian that please build bridges rather than destroying. Time has come we must trust each other. Otherwise there is no hope in hell. We cannot go anywhere else. The question is- we can change friends, we cannot change neighbours. Therefore, either we live in understanding each other, helping each other, or we live in animosity, see that our people suffer. Our aim is that we want to live in friendship. And not for the short time friendship, but an eternal friendship, so that we can develop to an extent where there will be boundaries; you’ll be Bangladeshis, and we’ll be Indians; but unity will be such that nobody will regard one as an enemy, and the other one as a friend.

Khalidi: The Sundarbans is not just a delicate ecosystem, but a source of livelihood for millions -timber, honey, shrimp, fish, bamboo, etc…

Abdullah: I’ve been to Sundarbans. I’ve been to cyclone areas of Sundarbans, and we gave them solar lighting because there was no lighting, everything has gone off. So we are ourselves concerned that ecosystem has to be maintained.

Khalidi: … And there is astronomical potential for ecotourism ... not very unlike the Dal Lake in Srinagar. Some people ask, why would you endorse such a project on its banks? Would it be a fitting legacy for the son of the Sher-e-Kashmir?

Abdullah: India would not do something that would not benefit you, but would hurt this, the environment of the nation. Not at all. If India felt that this was going to be detrimental, India would step back immediately. Immediately (repeats, to stress).

Khalidi: One last question, that is about politics. Is India committed to promoting sustainable secular democracy in its neighborhood, especially in Bangladesh? And do you see a threat to India's secular democracy posed by BJP's comeback bid with Narendra Modi leading the charge?

Abdullah: First of all let me tell you that both of our nations have population which is of different religions. In your country, you speak the same language. In India, we speak multiple languages. We have multiple religions, we have multiple cuisines. We have everything different. North is different to the South, East is different to the West. But only one thing joins us, that is a hope that we can live together. That we can progress together, that our religions will grow together. I don’t see difference in Gods. My Allah, we say is Rabbul Alamin. He is the God of all the universe, of everything, whether you accept it or not. Hindus call Ram. They say Vishwakarma. This world is Ram. So I don’t see any difference. We pray towards Makkah, they go to the temple. The God is the same. They see him in different shapes, they see him in different colours. And to protect this, what God has given us we need to be secular. We need to grow in that spirit, that God created all of us. And it is our job to see that all survive in all benefits. And that is what Bangladesh has to do, and that is what India has to do. We are afraid, let me be very frank, we are afraid at times, when there are parties that go on to religious segments. Yes, we are afraid. And if something like that emerges here in Bangladesh, it will be dangerous for you. And your danger will be our danger. And if we have something like that, it will be your danger too. Therefore, we, both nations, have to work and see that secular parties grow. And that they continue to hold to this fabric so strongly together that none of the storms, that may come, can in any way damage it.

Khalidi: Do you follow developments in Bangladesh?

Abdullah: Yes, I do.

Khalidi: Then how do you respond to the rise of Hifazat in Bangladesh?

Abdullah: I think they rise because of expectations of the people are much greater than one can do. And therefore, when one is not able to fully do at the speed that the people want, tendencies start emerging, and they use religious slogans, and then subtly the whole connotation changes. And they are trying to convert him - this innocent man who is a voter – to the wrong direction.

Khalidi: So what will be your advice to secular forces in Bangladesh to fight these people?

Abdullah: I would beg them from the bottom of my heart that we may not have achieved everything, but let us not forget, from where we were in 1971 to where we are today, there is a tremendous difference. And this happened because we worked hard. And we keep working hard and we keep secular traditions going, there is no doubt in my mind that whatever distance is left now that will also be filled quickly, and you will find the nation growing at much faster speed. Then having tendencies whereby we’re going to hit each other, whereby we’re going to create differences, and have street fights, have work suffer, that would be detrimental to the future of your nation, as much detrimental to the future of my nation.

Khalidi: Dr. Farooq Abdullah thank you so much for your time

Abdullah: Thank you. God bless you and I hope to see you succeed in your endeavour to bring nations closer.

Khalidi: Thank you so much.